The End of Days and the Dagor D

[Turgon]

Friends - in my haste I must admit to not having looked elsewhere, but...
Where is it written about the End of Days and the Dagor D...? In reading other posts in the past I have a vague idea of it - Morgoth sneeks back through the door and Turin kicks his ass. What else? I'm assuming there was an epic battle, the world is remade? Help!!

[TulKas]

Morgoth is supposed to somehow turn the moon against the sun. It follows the sun through the Gates of Morn (I think that's what they call 'em), which I'd guess somehow allows Morgoth to escape. He destroys the sun and the moon (or perhaps one destroys the other and he kills the survivor), and then there is the last battle. Morgoth is destroyed, but the world is broken. The Valar remake the world with the help of Men, Elves, and Dwarves, and rekindle the Two Trees with Earendil's Silmaril. I think they might somehow recover the other Silmarils...

[Turgon]

Thanks Tulkas, but where is it written?? I want to read it!!

[Frodo_Baggins]

No Tulkas, it's not written how Morgoth will return. But he will slip in through the Doors of Night, and he will amass an army of evil such as the world has never seen. The Dagor Dagorath will then occur (The Battle to End All Battles) and the final confrontation will happen in Valinor. The souls of all men shall be released from Mandos and an army of Men and Elves will meet Morgoth on the plain. Turin will make the death blow to Morgoth with Mormegil, ending his family's curse and getting revenge on his greatest enemy. It is suspected that Eru will then totally and utterly destroy his fea, ending him forever. Feanor will break open the Silmarils and Yavanna shall make Laurelin and Telperion anew. Manwe, now descended from Taniquetil, will level the Pelori Mountains, and let the world bathe in the light of Valinor, and then it shall be made again by the dwarves with their hands and men with their music.

[Mellryn]

where is it written??

1 Corinthians 4:6-8..No. just kidding. This site talks about the Last Battle and gives references. Frodo gave a good account and I don't know how accurate this is, but you might find it interesting.

[Turgon]

Thanks, but am I missing something or what? Other than the site Mellryn (thank you very much) suggested is there any Tolkien writing on the subject - specifically, is there any explicit written account of the end of days other than the hints and references to it? For instance, where is it discussed take Turin will deal the death blow to Morgoth? Be a pal and let me in to the club!

[Tsayn]

Turgon, is this (most notably the second quote) what you're looking for?

[TulKas]

The most complete summarization of the whole thing (to my knowledge) is in The Silmarillion. There are, however, many details about it in the History of Middle-Earth series (for instance the whole deal with the Sun and the Moon)

[Turgon]

Beauty!! Thank you all - the Lost Tales passage(s) is what I was looking for - haven't read them yet (obviously) - I'm only now just reading Unfinished Tales - funny thing is that I've been reading the LoTR, Hobbit, and Simarillion several times over the years and never bothered to check if there existed other writings/books - silly me! This site is great, you are great, I love you all, I think I'm going to cry now ....


Seriously, in the quote from the LOst Tales courtesy of Tsayn (thank you Tsayn) it is mention that Turin, only among Men is mentioned, and that he became numbered among the sons of the Valar - "sons of the Valar"??? Is this just a figure of speech? Is there something else going on that I need to be aware of??

[Frodo_Baggins]

Nothing of the Second Prophecy of Mandos is ever stated in The Silmarillion. It is mentioned briefly in Unfinished Tales, and then in HOME.

[Curse of Mandos]

Yeah just to say Turgon, if you take anything from The History of Middle-Earth series you have to remember that JRRT wrote these a long time before he compiled what we now know as The Silmarillion. Obviously there have been major changes including the Valar not having offspring, as they did in BoLT. They are more a great insight into the working mind of a genius than hard-fact canon.

[TulKas]

JRRT wrote these a long time before he compiled what we now know as The Silmarillion.

Bad choice of words, really...

[Curse of Mandos]

What? Do you want a full bloody skematic of exactly what i mean? I think everyone knows what i was trying to say with that particular clause in that particular sentence.

[Lömien]

All I can say is Barli better get back here soon, someone *cough* Curse*Cough* needs a beer and I think it had better be soon.

[_Legolas_]

i agree heartily with that suggestion. one for me too!
mandos remember that everyone is your friend and that the trees talk to youand that chainsaws are bad.
but if you go to war i shall be there with you!


to war!

[Curse of Mandos]

It's ok, i took a shot of morphine in the arm and im just ok........look at those pretty colours.......

Yeah i did rather snap there eh?

[_Legolas_]

you see the pretty colours too?
*wow* and I don't even take drugs!!!!!!!!

[TulKas]

All I meant to say was that JRRT never really compiled The Silmarillion. What is found there was taken from the texts given in HoME, so if you mean to say that the text was written long before it was compiled by Christoper Tolkien, then okay...

[Gulathir]

I really hope that by the time of the last battle that the elves under Finwe will do the most valiant of acts against the enemy

and that my fondest wish would come true

Feanor and Fingolfin would reconcile and fight together against Morgoth's forces and even though Turin would deliver the death blow. I would hope that Feanor would engage Morgoth in one on one combat. !

That would be SWEEEEEEEEET !

[Finrod Felagund]

of all the people that deserve to get a shot at Morgoth, i think Feanor and Turin are the top of the list. They had their lives and families most screwed up by Mr. Melkor.

Nothing of the Second Prophecy of Mandos is ever stated in The Silmarillion. It is mentioned briefly in Unfinished Tales, and then in HOME.

another prophecy: "Great is the fall of Gondolin". That must really have been cryptic, since nobody knew what the heck Gondolin was. makes you wonder why they all shuddered to hear it, except that the elves could possibly sense that it was a very strong doom. Makes me think of those old testament prophecies about the empires of the assyrians, Babylonias, Persians, Greeks, etc., or the Writing on the Wall in Daniel. Whenever someone talks about the fall of a great city, it is a time for shuddering.

[dried-mango]

Whenever someone talks about the fall of a great city, it is a time for shuddering.

Other times for shuddering are when someone shoves snow down your parka, or when picturing your old folks making out...

*shudder*

[Finrod Felagund]

agreed

[Mithrandir]

IIRC, there's something about the DD in The Treason of Isengard, but it has been acknowledged that HoME is not canon.