The Grey Havens

They're mentioned frequently but little space is given to describing them- we know only of a few tribes or groups that existed in the Third Age, such as the Wainriders and the Haradrim. 'Variags of Khand' is a name without much attached.

I have to wonder about the Easterlings in the movies, specifically the ones which Frodo, Sam, and Gollum see in front of the Morannon. They look cool but I'm not sure which tribe they were supposed to come from. Ideas?

Anything you know about the Eaterlings or want to know about the Easterlings, please post here!

Elros

I don't recall any "tribes" being named, but there were a few different Easterling/Southron cities mentioned in the books such as Khand, Umbar, and Harad. Harad was more of a country, I think...

aren't they part of the race of men that never moved westward ... they stayed in the east serving Melkor/Sauron. I believe in the movie they kind of lumped a lot of 'tribes' together under the same name.

Yeah... In The Peoples of Middle Earth it states the purpose of the Ithryn Luin's purpose was to divide the Easterlings and cause civil strife. Some say they failed, other say without them, Harad would've proven too powerful later on...

Well my understanding was they went East, not down south so they couldn't have done much for the Haradrim, considering they had been under the influence of the Black Numenoreans.

Oromë wrote:Well my understanding was they went East, not down south so they couldn't have done much for the Haradrim, considering they had been under the influence of the Black Numenoreans.

I don't think there were exactly any Black Numenoreans left around the War of the Ring, but Sauron most definitely had an influence over the Harad.

with the movie i think what frodo and sam and gollum saw was troops from harad. they are just in different attire. and i seem to remember somewhere in the books that souron forced some good east nations to join him either by persuasion, bribe, then if all failed invasion.
also if you have ever seen a map that tolkien aggreed with or has drawn the east and south is a huge area. harad is 3 times as big as the classic middle earth. almost same with the east. so a few nations are mentioned but i have to believe there are possibly hundereds. and harad could be numerouse nations on the continent of harad??? the few forces mentioned to gather to mordor may be gatherings, or forces gathered through invasion or force, or there are some that possibly are still fighting for freedom from sauron. the world is open to that?... or atleast the south and the east.

[MOVE] just testing caz nowhere else to test this [/MOVE]

The troops in the movie seen at the Black Gate were most definitely Easterlings. All of the official art and weapons books show this.

The Easterlings were descendants of the men who had refused to make contact with the elves.

They worshipped Morgoth (Melkor) and Sauron. They lived to the east of Mordor and up around Rhun.

still; the argument that the entire world of Tolkien is HUGE holds true. All we get to read about is the west (and the old west). I find it hard to believe that the east is entirely conquered by morgoth; either by force or by faith.

To compare to our world (Beleriand/the west being europe) going east you would encounter some states like bulgaria, Lituvania(englisch?), Croatia etc. But going further we would encouter lands like india, russia, china and finally japan. The landmass (and population) would by far outweigh Beleriand and the west) and that is without mentioning the south (which should well compare to half the size of Africa). Keeping that in mind, and adding to the fact that in mediaval times people didn't know much of things 100 miles away I don't think that those states would have much to do with each other.

As it was in our middle ages most of the land in between beleriand/the west would be barren (like afghanistan) and few dwelt there. If you would travel further east you would encounter completely different cultures and people. Even elves maybe.

If Morgoth or later Souron would have had those territories he would be king and master of the entire world, just by force of numbers. Or he would be a real bad strategist.

As for the 'easterlings', they were the tribes closest to the west who lived east of Mordor, and they would be under his sphere of influence; but beyond that nobody knows.

A few istari went there, but nothing is said of them

i completely agree, i couldnt have said it better!

well about those Istari, in a letter Tolkien has said something about them; (UT), he suggest that they may have fallen for the desires and weaknesses of physical form (like Saruman). I guess that those lands weren't all happy and joyfull then.

I don't think there were exactly any Black Numenoreans left around the War of the Ring.

I still find it odd that Haradrim would let Black Numenoreans tell them what to do. The BNs were a different race. Were the original ethnic Haradrim rulers executed by the BNs?

Gareth Yaztromo wrote:

I don't think there were exactly any Black Numenoreans left around the War of the Ring.

I still find it odd that Haradrim would let Black Numenoreans tell them what to do. The BNs were a different race. Were the original ethnic Haradrim rulers executed by the BNs?

Well...I doubt the BN had enough manpower to overwhelm the natives through military force so they prolly involved themselves in (devious) politics. Perhaps the BN were manipulate and clever enough to stand in the shadow and let a puppet ruler be at the forefront until they could take over directly.

Thingol, that's probably right.

The haradrim and the Easterlings were two seperate races. Haradrim were from, yes, you guessed it, Harad. Whereas the Easterlings referred solely to those from Rhun and beyond. And Khand was a country too, the only mentioned Southron city that was still standing at the end of the WR was Umbar. And the Easterlings never served Morgoth, they were corrupted by Sauron during the second age, and the Haradrim were pretty corrupt anyway, as their monarchy was largely full of Black Numenoreans.

Easterling is a rather subjective term... I don't think it really refers to any one group of people. Take for instance that the treacherous Men in The Silmarillion were also called Easterlings, though they in fact would have been located to the West of Middle-Earth. They were simply in the East of Beleriand, which is where that book took place...

At the most, I would say the term Easterling could refer to any of the Men who stayed in the East after the Edain left.

That makes sense.

I actually think "the Easterlings" referred to a distinct racial strain. I think I have legitimate (textual) reasons for believing this, but I don't remember what they are right now. Sorry...must...have...more...beer...